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Why is it so hard to tax the rich?

Why is it so hard to tax the rich?

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@AverageJoe1
Building from your points (and as we've spoken about in the past) what is to stop unfettered corporate/ financial power dominating the government and bending it to their will?
This is what has actually occurred since the 1980s.
The massive deficits that have been run up to pay for tax cuts for the mega-wealthy have not 'trickled down' as they were supposed to. You talk blithely about 'paying your way' and 'standing on your own two feet' with no mention whatsoever of the largest act of socialism EVER - bank bailouts in 2008 - that you have previously told me were 'good' for the economy?!?!?!!?
Washington is dominated by lobbyists and money. Unprecedented inequality has led to increasing unrest.
The economy exists to serve the people NOT the other way around.
We could argue about this all day but the REALITY is that the economy is not working for most Americans, which is why Trump was elected after he pointed out this obvious fact...

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@Rajk999
Maybe, to a point. But this is too simplistic for me, ignoring as it does the role of sanctions imposed at the behest of oil companies, along with attempted coups etc. The world is messier than your neat theories imply...

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@beardmusic said
@AverageJoe1
Building from your points (and as we've spoken about in the past) what is to stop unfettered corporate/ financial power dominating the government and bending it to their will?
This is what has actually occurred since the 1980s.
The massive deficits that have been run up to pay for tax cuts for the mega-wealthy have not 'trickled down' as they were supposed ...[text shortened]... working for most Americans, which is why Trump was elected after he pointed out this obvious fact...
Be real, man. You say things or opine to the extent it is impossible to debate the facts.
Right out of the gate, you treat the 2008 bank bailouts as proof of socialism. Emergency government intervention in a capitalist economy is not the same thing as socialism. Geez.. The relevant question is whether the intervention prevented a wider economic collapse, who benefited, and who bore the costs.

Then you atttinute deficits to tax cuts for the wealthy alone. Tax cuts can reduce revenue, but deficits also reflect spending decisions, recessions, interest costs, and other factors. You simply do notaccount for all of them.
You conflatesinequality withproof that the entire economic system has failed. Inequality and economic insecurity are real issues, but they do not, by themselves, establish that government control of production would produce better outcomes. That is a baseless opinion

H, and then you suggest Trump's election isproof of your economic argument.?!?!? An election result can demonstrate political discontent, but it doen’t establish that voters had one shared motivation or that a particular economic diagnosis was correct.

So add all of these statements up, and it is no way to chat about it. These are your speculations. I guess I could give you my speculations, but they are all speculations. And of course, I have not touched on everything you wrote, it is just too too long, or the responses would be too long to respond correctly.
Mostly this stuff boils down to there being so many Pollyannas in your crowd. If you would think more realistically, you would see how complex the situation is, while you liberals make it look so simple. Like just get all of the money from the Rich people. I cannot believe you think that that would last for more than about two months.
Then where will you go for your next truckload of money. And where would you go for the products that they used to produce which they would of course stop producing.
Think long-term Mann, let Susie decide what we need to do this week. There’s a lot of difference.

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@AverageJoe1
Basically, it seems as though you believe that left on their own markets will provide the 'optimal outcomes' for society. This is deluded nonsense, as the upcoming bursting of the current AI bubble will, once again, (unfortunately) demonstrate...

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@beardmusic said
@AverageJoe1
Basically, it seems as though you believe that left on their own markets will provide the 'optimal outcomes' for society. This is deluded nonsense, as the upcoming bursting of the current AI bubble will, once again, (unfortunately) demonstrate...
Well, I suspect we could debate this until the next AI bubble comes along! 😂 I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
But I do detect that you might have the government poised to step in and save the day, which may be the only way out. (temporarily) Like I said earlier that would get you about two months. The only other thing after that would be to tell people to be self-sufficient, but you liberals would not hear of that.
Let me say these people you write about , present day , do have trouble, and will have trouble digging out. But it will teach people in the future to be self reliant. They will not want it to happen to them.That is my wish.

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@beardmusic said
@Rajk999
Maybe, to a point. But this is too simplistic for me, ignoring as it does the role of sanctions imposed at the behest of oil companies, along with attempted coups etc. The world is messier than your neat theories imply...
Sanctions/coups/invasions, are the international equivalent of telling your neighbor that you are not pleased that he beats his wife and kids, or abuses his dog, and you will no longer invite him to your backyard BBQ, and you will also tell your friends down the street to do the same, until he changes. Furthermore if he beats his children one more time you will break into his house and beat the @#$itt out of him.

This stuff works, and get things done, both on a personal and a national level.

Weirdos with sick agendas exist at home and on a national scale and the solution is the same.

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@AverageJoe1
I too want people to be self-reliant. It is the economic system that stops this, it is just a shame that you cannot see this...

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@beardmusic said
@AverageJoe1
I too want people to be self-reliant. It is the economic system that stops this, it is just a shame that you cannot see this...
This report confirms that there are a lot of self reliant in this country. What it tells me is not what you have all been writing about… It tells me that it is possible to be self-reliant here, while you are curiously sayin that “ our system stop this@ 🤔.And some people have decided not to be self reliant. Some have made bad choices. Or have too many children. Or spend money unwisely.. Need to go on? It takes a real loser to not be able to make it in this country. Yes, there are some people who get arthritis for three months and cannot work, but we are talking about the general picture in the opportunities. If he does not have arthritis, he can get a job and he can make money to live on.

If a person is infirmed, do a thread on it. This one is about opportunity and the ability to be self reliant in our country. Get with it.
“”””””• Adult Financial Independence: According to a Pew Research Center analysis, 45% of young adults (ages 18 to 34) are completely financially independent of their parents. While 67% reach this in their early 30s, over half of Millennials and one-third of Gen X adults still report feeling somewhat financially dependent on family or external safety nets.””

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@AverageJoe1 said
“Should? Nah, the 50M people at the bottom have no money, thus the CAN'T pay taxes. What are you going to ask them for their fingernails?”

I said above that WE SHOULD TAKE CARE of the 50M.
I will let you off on that misread, I typed something wrong myself the other day it happens.
Well that wasn't the question of the thread, so I was probably just confused why you would go so far off topic.

Who pays the taxes? Why is Warren Buffet being taxed less than his secretary? That's ridiculous.

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@Zahlanzi said
musk is set to spend like 250 million dollars in the midterms.


that's your answer.
He only gets one vote.

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@AverageJoe1 said
This report confirms that there are a lot of self reliant in this country. What it tells me is not what you have all been writing about… It tells me that it is possible to be self-reliant here, while you are curiously sayin that “ our system stop this@ 🤔.And some people have decided not to be self reliant. Some have made bad choices. Or have too many children. Or spend m ...[text shortened]... en X adults still report feeling somewhat financially dependent on family or external safety nets.””
Self-reliant, hard working people are paying 25% of their earnings into a system where their neighbor (who benefits exactly the same from the system) pays 0% of their earnings because they don't have any earnings that go through a W-2 form because they inherited wealth from their great grandparents and so they don't work real jobs.

So,. it's not that the earners are "not able to make it", the earners are bogged down paying taxes into a system that selectively treats those who have already made it to a discount on living in America. The rich get richer because of the regressive tax code. And you seem to support that system because any suggestion that anything should change suddenly becomes "stop punishing success" or "why do you hate rich people" when obviously the discussion should be focused on why the rich people are not paying taxes and why we have so willingly accepted a system that gives them a free ride?

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@beardmusic said
@AverageJoe1
I too want people to be self-reliant. It is the economic system that stops this, it is just a shame that you cannot see this...
Why do you write a post here in a debate about the opportunity for people to set up a budget to live by within their means, and at the same time write about what happens if they have not set aside funds for their accident, which keeps them out of work for a while??
These are two separate things. I would not even know how to respond to such a premise

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@AverageJoe1 said
Why do you write a post here in a debate about the opportunity for people to set up a budget to live by within their means, and at the same time write about what happens if they have not set aside funds for their accident, which keeps them out of work for a while??
These are two separate things. I would not even know how to respond to such a premise
Maybe they're not setting money aside because they're too busy paying taxes, footing the bill for rich guys who don't have to.

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@beardmusic said
@AverageJoe1
I too want people to be self-reliant. It is the economic system that stops this, it is just a shame that you cannot see this...
I did not see where you explained why the US economic system sis topping people for being self-reliant. I think the opposite is the case. The US the go-to place if you want to succeed in life. People all over the world know this [except some Americans apparently]. Proof of this is the sheer volume of immigrants risking their lives to get in. In the US you can start with virtually nothing and work your way to become a millionaire. I have seen countless people from my country do this. They leave here poor, with no education and within 10 years they are travelling the world, their kids are educated and working and they are self-reliant.

BUT ... you must have the right attitude and some ambition.