@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidOne simply make the distinction between a literal demand and a social expectation to affirm or endorse. Are you daft?
You wrote:
" Does being free to live as you choose also give you a right to demand that everyone else approve of how you choose to live? I say no. They literally demand of us that we approved of them."
Again I ask, how is such a demand made of you?
We don't have that you see in the UK.
I don’t mean that someone literally walks up to me and says, ‘You must approve of me.’ I mean the demand is implicit in the expectation that I must affirm their identity, use particular terminology, celebrate their public displays, and accept criticism if I say that I don’t agree or don’t want to participate. Whew!!’
You are absolutely entitled to live as you choose. But I am equally entitled to say, ‘I don’t agree with you, I don’t want to participate, and I don’t approve,’ without being required to apologize for that opinion. Why be obtuse?
If there is no expectation that I approve, then why is my merely expressing disapproval considered intolerant? Why isn’t disagreement itself allowed? Geez
@AverageJoe1 saidDoes it hurt your feelings to be considered intolerant when you spend an inordinate amount of your time railing against transgender persons, supporting measures that exclude them from recreational activities they wish to engage in (even if the organizations that run the competitions have no problem with their inclusion) and even claiming they really don't exist?
One simply make the distinction between a literal demand and a social expectation to affirm or endorse. Are you daft?
I don’t mean that someone literally walks up to me and says, ‘You must approve of me.’ I mean the demand is implicit in the expectation that I must affirm their identity, use particular terminology, celebrate their public displays, and accept criticism ...[text shortened]... merely expressing disapproval considered intolerant? Why isn’t disagreement itself allowed? Geez
@AverageJoe1 saidYou said, "They literally demand of us that we approved of them."
One simply make the distinction between a literal demand and a social expectation to affirm or endorse. Are you daft?
I don’t mean that someone literally walks up to me and says, ‘You must approve of me.’ I mean the demand is implicit in the expectation that I must affirm their identity, use particular terminology, celebrate their public displays, and accept criticism ...[text shortened]... merely expressing disapproval considered intolerant? Why isn’t disagreement itself allowed? Geez
Are you daft? - How do they literally demand this of you?
Maybe don't use the word 'literally' if you actually mean something else.
@AverageJoe1 saidI thought it was a rather simple question.
I would LOVE to if you would make your premise more coherent. Say it like you would if you had six people listening to you while dining out at a quiet dinner table. Please. "I'd like to get your opinions on something..." something like that. We. need to start on a set of basic understanding. i know you hate it when I fly off the handle or move goal posts like I do. ...[text shortened]... What is your premise?
You see, there is no way that I can re-phrase your question...you have to.
@no1marauder saidHold on, Mr issue changer..,intolerance of a person is not the same as disagreeing with a claim or policy.
Does it hurt your feelings to be considered intolerant when you spend an inordinate amount of your time railing against transgender persons, supporting measures that exclude them from recreational activities they wish to engage in (even if the organizations that run the competitions have no problem with their inclusion) and even claiming they really don't exist?
it doesn’t hurt my feelings to be called intolerant. What I object to is your use of ‘intolerant’ as if disagreement automatically equals intolerance.🤔 I don’t hate transgender people, I don’t deny their existence, and I don’t believe they should be mistreated. I simply believe that their freedom to live as they choose doesn’t automatically give them a right to participate in every activity under whatever rules they prefer, or to require everyone else to agree with their definition of sex and gender. Hmmm ….do You? The truth.
You’re perfectly free to disagree with me. I’m equally free to disagree with you. That isn’t intolerance—that’s having a different opinion.
If by ‘intolerant’ you mean I won’t automatically agree with you, then yes, I’m intolerant ……of the idea that disagreement is forbidden. I don’t have to hate someone, or deny their existence for that matter,to believe that there preferred rules shouldn’t automatically govern everyone else.
You are way off on this one. You probably should bring Susiayn in
@AverageJoe1 saidThat's all BS. The number of transgender people in the US is extremely small and the number who want to compete in sports competitions is utterly tiny, yet you persist in making thread after thread after thread here railing against them. Why is it such a BFD to you?
Hold on, Mr issue changer..,intolerance of a person is not the same as disagreeing with a claim or policy.
it doesn’t hurt my feelings to be called intolerant. What I object to is your use of ‘intolerant’ as if disagreement automatically equals intolerance.🤔 I don’t hate transgender people, I don’t deny their existence, and I don’t believe they should be mistreated. I si ...[text shortened]... atically govern everyone else.
You are way off on this one. You probably should bring Susiayn in
You deny that someone can change sexes or at least you've posted that here (maybe you forgot). That really is a denial that transgender persons exist. If you don't like being called "intolerant" for such an extreme position (after all, "sex change" operations have been available in the US for about 75 years and almost all US States allow people to change their sex classification on their driver's licenses) that's too bad.
@no1marauder saidYour first paragraph has nothing to do with the issue, and is absolutely meaningless in that regard. Let’s critique the nextthe paragraph.
That's all BS. The number of transgender people in the US is extremely small and the number who want to compete in sports competitions is utterly tiny, yet you persist in making thread after thread after thread here railing against them. Why is it such a BFD to you?
You deny that someone can change sexes or at least you've posted that here (maybe you forgot). That real ...[text shortened]... S States allow people to change their sex classification on their driver's licenses) that's too bad.
Am I seeing things?
Your argument jumps from “transgender people exist” to “therefore a man can become a woman,” which doesn’t logically follow.
I haven’t denied that transgender people exist. Of course they exist. What I deny is your conclusion that acknowledging a transgender person means I must accept that a biological man has literally become a biological woman. Those are two different propositions. Geez
You arguing against something I didn’t say. I don’t deny their existence. I deny that ‘transgender’ means that biological sex has actually been changed. If you want to call that intolerant, that’s your characterizationit is NOT an argument proving me wrong.
You are conflating ‘transgender people exists’ with *‘a biological man can become a biological woman.’ I accept the first and reject the second. A surgery or a change on a driver’s license doesn’t demonstrate that biological sex has changed. That’s the actual point I’ve been making all along.
You are straw man, grabbing left and right
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@AverageJoe1 saidYour weird definition of "biological sex" is based on what is put on a piece of paper when someone is born. And that is based on an examination of external genitalia, which, has I have shown, can be changed by medical treatments and surgery.
Your first paragraph has nothing to do with the issue, and is absolutely meaningless in that regard. Let’s critique the nextthe paragraph.
Am I seeing things?
Your argument jumps from “transgender people exist” to “therefore a man can become a woman,” which doesn’t logically follow.
I haven’t denied that transgender people exist. Of course they exist. What I deny i ...[text shortened]... That’s the actual point I’ve been making all along.
You are straw man, grabbing left and right
So "your point" is illogical and stupid and just a "hold your breath until you turn blue" strategy. You've presented no reason why someone should accept your assertion that sex can't be changed when thousands of operations doing so are completed in the US every year. In essence, all you've done is create a definition to get to your preconceived position i.e. that transgender girls and women should not be allowed to compete in girls and women's events. But that's intellectually dishonest; one doesn't decide what a definition should do first and then create it to fit that purpose.
@no1marauder saidYou’re quite disingenuous and lying to your readers when you ask them to believe you that a man can change his sex. In this post, I think you are saying that he changes his genitalia. But, Send us a link that says that a man can change his sex.
Your weird definition of "biological sex" is based on what is put on a piece of paper when someone is born. And that is based on an examination of external genitalia, which, has I have shown, can be changed by medical treatments and surgery.
So "your point" is illogical and stupid and just a "hold your breath until you turn blue" strategy. You've presented no reason w ...[text shortened]... honest; one doesn't decide what a definition should do first and then create it to fit that purpose.
You cannot do it. Oh, you might cover us with links, but none of them then will say that a man can change his sex. I challenge you. What a joke.
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@AverageJoe1 said'Cause you polluted this one with your first post.
@Suzianne
We lost one guys, send me to another thread where there are no losers.
@AverageJoe1 saidWhy not? You apparently do not believe in science, either.
Your first paragraph has nothing to do with the issue, and is absolutely meaningless in that regard. Let’s critique the nextthe paragraph.
Am I seeing things?
Your argument jumps from “transgender people exist” to “therefore a man can become a woman,” which doesn’t logically follow.
I haven’t denied that transgender people exist. Of course they exist. What I deny i ...[text shortened]... That’s the actual point I’ve been making all along.
You are straw man, grabbing left and right
@AverageJoe1 saidBut can he change his gender?
You’re quite disingenuous and lying to your readers when you ask them to believe you that a man can change his sex. In this post, I think you are saying that he changes his genitalia. But, Send us a link that says that a man can change his sex.
You cannot do it. Oh, you might cover us with links, but none of them then will say that a man can change his sex. I challenge you. What a joke.
@AThousandYoung saidI know. Why can't they just identify as being gay?
Nonbinary is not the same as trans.
Is it a way to get attention?
It seems like a way to make a spectacle of themselves. Not all people change their names to the opposite sex. It seems like a lot of trouble to go through to get attention.
This is a new thing and it is trendy.
@Metal-Brain saidErm, because non binary isn't the same as being gay.
I know. Why can't they just identify as being gay?
'Non-binary does not mean gay. Non-binary describes a person's gender identity (not being strictly a man or a woman), while gay describes a person's sexual orientation (who they are attracted to). A non-binary person can have any sexual orientation, including straight, gay, bi, or asexual.'